00:00 Speaker A
Galaxy Digital makes its Nasdaq debut today. Trading under the ticker symbol GLXY. It is a significant milestone for the crypto financial services firm. It previously traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange, and we’re now joined by CEO Mike Novogratz. Mike, welcome on. What is, I know, a big day, Mike. So, Galaxy Digital starts trading this morning on the Nasdaq through a direct listing. To start, Mike, I’m just curious. Walk us through what this means for you, Mike, for the company, for the broader industry.
00:46 Mike Novogratz
Yeah, listen, it was an emotional day. It was surprising. I remember 15 years ago when we took Fortress Public. There was a lot of joy and cheering and high fives, and we had set out to do something that was very difficult and did it. Uh, I think partly because of my age, uh, partly because of just how hard crypto has been, you know, so many times, I mean, in 2018 there was a 96%, 97% fall from high to low. I mean, I mean, you know, I’ve never heard of a 96% fall. Uh, 2022, we had all the scandals and another huge fall. And so, uh, for my team, for my partners, our investors, you know, to kind of stick it out through thick and thin. It just felt like, so one, one part of it felt like, you know, you’re ringing the bell of the finish line. But then when I really thought about it, everything we built for was this institutional moment that’s here, and that bell is really the starting line. Um, you know, we have two great businesses now. We have a data center business, an AI data center business, mostly based in Texas, uh, that I think will be the largest data center in America by 2029, um, 2030. And it’s gonna grow beyond that. And so, that’s been fun. It was a great pivot, uh, from Bitcoin mining, and it’s gonna give a lot of shareholder value. And then we have a crypto business that was literally tailor built for this moment when institutions want to join. And we’re gonna get regular, we’re gonna get legislation done on Monday for stable coins down in D.C. I’m proud of the, uh, the Senators on both sides, especially the Democratic Senators because, you know, they had a far left wing that was squawking and didn’t want to do this. And, you know, to get any bipartisan legislation done right now, in this moment of complete divisiveness in the country, uh, is a testament to both, you know, the Senators on the right and left, right? That’s, you know, Senator Warner, uh, and Gigos, uh, really, you know, running the, the campaign on the Democratic side, and, and, uh, Tim Scott, but mostly, uh, Hagerty, uh, from Tennessee, who’s really pushed this thing through. Uh, and it’s great. And so, you know, all of a sudden, an industry that was hated for four years has a seat, SEC chair, uh, who’s pro crypto, the entire infrastructure from OCC to CFDC is pro crypto. They’re embracing us as opposed to chasing after us, uh, and prosecuting us. Uh, and now we’re getting legislation. And so, you know, it’s a huge tailwind for the industry, not just for Galaxy, but the whole industry, but, and we plan on taking advantage of it.
06:26 Speaker A
So, Mike, I’m curious, given the two business segments, as you pointed out there, uh, crypto and AI data center, who would you consider, Mike, your competitors here?
06:41 Mike Novogratz
I kind of think we’re a unicorn in that respect. Uh, listen, there are other crypto companies that do a great job, and we think we’re gonna compete head-to-head with them. Um, and there are data center companies, and there are other crypto mining companies that are pivoting to AI, but no one really doing both under the same roof. And so, you think of us as a holding company with two businesses that have some synergies in between. They’re both growth businesses. Uh, getting on the Nasdaq and having access to the deepest capital markets is an essential part of our success. And so we’re thrilled, we’re thrilled to be here. Uh, But yeah, I don’t see, you know, there’s, there’s not another company that’s kind of doing both at the scale we are.
07:56 Speaker A
Mike, I, I also have just a broader Bitcoin question for you. You know, you think about gold’s market cap. It’s roughly, let’s call it 22 trillion. Do you think someday, Mike,
08:20 Mike Novogratz
Yes.
08:21 Speaker A
Bitcoin could be half of that? Yeah. You’re getting ahead of me. But if yes, then here’s my next question. If yes, if Bitcoin could someday be half of that, let’s say, what does that depend on, Mike? Is that, does it get there through just current momentum? Would that depend on certain regulatory changes? Walk me through it.
08:54 Mike Novogratz
So when I bought Bitcoin at 100, uh, I, you know, spoke at a conference. I didn’t know the press was there, and they next thing you know, I was on the cover of the FT. And then I got asked over and over to come speak about this crazy invention, or digital money, or, you know, wacky, wacky dream of a bunch of Cypherpunks. Uh, and I started telling the story and trying to convince people why this made sense. And there were lots of other storytellers. In Bitcoin parlance, we call it orange pilling. Uh, when Larry Fink got orange pilled, when a skeptic became a prophet, uh, and he happened to be the CEO of the largest asset management company in the world, that was the tipping point. And why Bitcoin’s gonna just keep growing is adoption. You know, as more and more people are in the tent and say, this is a store of value for me, right? It’s not the technology that makes it a store of value. It’s the social construct that I think it’s got value. Larry thinks it has value. Lots of people think it has value. Therefore it has value. And you’re seeing it, right? I was in the Middle East, one of the big Sovereign Wealth funds, and after Donald Trump made his big speech at Nashville, at Bitcoin Nashville, he told me U.S. is getting in. I’m getting in. And sure enough, they end up buying, you know, over half a billion dollars. Um, that’s happening every day. And so the adoption snowball crested the hill and is now rolling downhill and picking up speed. And that’s it. We will be as big as gold one day. If you think about it, young people love Bitcoin, right? Warren Buffett doesn’t like it. Charlie Munger hated it. You know, old people, it just didn’t resonate with them. But old people are dying, rest in peace, Charlie. And that money gets passed down to younger generations. And so there’s gonna be a natural shift as the, the, the greatest concentration of wealth and the baby boomers gets passed down.
12:35 Speaker A
So that’s the bull case, Mike. I am curious to also get your take on, you know, I’m an investor, I’m listening to this, and I think Mike’s making great points. What are the risks I should think about though, as well? I was looking at Bitcoin volatility right now actually, actually looks kind of relatively tame if I compare it to a single stock leverage ETF. So is volatility the risk or, or how do you through those possibilities?
13:14 Mike Novogratz
Well, listen, I mean, ironically, what would slow its ascent down is if the U.S. government would get its act together and Scott Beson’s dream of 3% growth and 3% deficit came true. If our deficit went from seven to three instead of from seven to eight, if our debt went from 35 trillion and started heading back to 25 trillion, you wouldn’t need Bitcoin. You wouldn’t need to be long gold. Uh, it doesn’t mean it’s gonna crash at that point because there’s still adoption, and there are other countries that are profligate as heck. But Bitcoin has always been a report card on fiscal stewardship. And you know, as much as Scott wants a 3% deficit, uh, you’re looking at this, this tax bill coming up, you’re looking at tariffs, you’re looking at, you know, adding a trillion dollars to the military. It just doesn’t add up. And as an American, I pray that we end up getting sane fiscal and monetary policy. Um, but I don’t believe it’s gonna happen. It’s not for lack of trying. It’s really complicated.
14:59 Speaker A
So it’s not for lack of trying. So because in other words, Mike, if, if I could bend debt to GDP in a way that wasn’t so scary, that would be a risk. But it sounds like you’re making the case that that just is politically very tough to get done.
15:17 Mike Novogratz
You know, we have populism on the left and populism on the right. Uh, most of us Wall Streeters would, would die for a centrist president, right? Like we haven’t had one. We thought Biden was gonna be one. And he pivoted right to the left. Uh, and, and so yes, if debt to GDP started heading back to double digits, my story for Bitcoin would be a lot less exciting. And again, I don’t think it collapses because of adoption, but I would have been long gold if I knew debt to GDP was gonna be 95 in three years, I would have been long gold. And I wouldn’t be long digital gold. I just don’t believe it.
16:48 Speaker A
Mike, you mentioned that adoption curve. I want to ask you a different question, which is, um, going back to politics. The moves the Trump family makes in this space, in crypto ventures. Does that, Mike, does it help adoption of crypto? Does it hurt adoption of crypto? Does it do neither? Walk me through it.
17:19 Mike Novogratz
Yeah, listen, so to be clear, the Trump Administration has been nothing but good for crypto in terms of regulation. And now we’re gonna see the legislative agenda. And, and the last one was terrible. And I’m a Democrat. Um, what I have said, you know, consistently is, you know, the Trump kids have a right to participate in crypto, and they’re excited about it. And as long as they stay within the law, they should have the same right as everyone else. If they break the law, uh, just like if I break the law, they should be in trouble. I do think it gave the far left, Elizabeth Warren and her comrades, an excuse to say corruption, doesn’t, doesn’t feel good, and almost scuttled the stable coin bill. Because, you know, politics are politics. And that’s why I’m so proud of the senators, uh, in the center who kept this thing together. Because, listen, it’s a good political talking point. Uh, you know, the coin doesn’t feel right for the president to issue one. Uh, that’s very different than his, his kids setting up, you know, crypto businesses, uh, when you had Trump coin and Melania coin, it just was really hard to say that feels great. Um, and so, listen, with President Trump, you know, what we’ve all learned is he’s a different kind of president. You gotta take the good with the bad. Uh, you don’t have to take it. You don’t have to vote for him. But that’s what you’re gonna get. And, uh, and so net net, I think this administration has been great for crypto. Uh, do I wish we didn’t have Trump coin and Melania coin? Yeah, I do. Uh, but, you know, we’re gonna live with it.
19:57 Speaker A
Mike, thank you again so much for your time today. We appreciate, sir.
20:03 Mike Novogratz
Thanks a lot.
